Monthly Archives: August 2014

Game of Thrones: Religion

I kind of pieced together my understanding of the religions through watching the series and decided to compare them by writing them down here.

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Old Gods of the Forest: (Originally worshipped by the Children of the Forest and First Men) Beliefs: They uphold the laws of hospitality. Worshipers of the Old Gods do not have elaborate ceremonies, holy texts, hierarchies of priests, or large structures of worship like followers of the Faith of the Seven. Consequences: Violating the laws of hospitality has consequences. Bran’s story of the Cook and the King is great example. (Speculation: There’s no doubt that Walder Frey will pay in some way for killing everyone who broke bread with him at the Wedding.) Symbols: Weirwood Tree with face carved in it. Worshipped by: *Free Folk (AKA Wildlings), 90 Tribes: Thenns, Hornfoots, Ice-river clans, Cave people, Giants. * The North of Westeros. (The priest of this religion is called a Greenseer. Bran has Greensight.) They have set up godswoods to worship the weirwood (heart) trees on their properties. Power demonstration: Yes, several have been provided. All the warging we have seen and the greensight of Bran.

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Faith of the Seven: (Brought to Westeros by the Andals). The Andal invasion included the slaughtering of the Children of the Forest; cutting down of the weirwood trees (worshipped by followers of the Old Gods) in the southern Westeros past The Neck. (The First Men held the North.) Beliefs: There is one god who has seven faces or aspects: the Father, the Mother, the Maiden, the Crone, the Warrior, the Smith, and the Stranger. Each aspect represents one part of life or existence. (These are recited by both parties at a wedding ceremony; Robb and Talisa’s S2E10.): The Father: represents divine justice, and judges the souls of the dead. The Mother: represents mercy, peace, fertility, and childbirth. She is sometimes referred to as “the strength of women”. The Maiden: represents purity, love, and beauty. The Crone: represents wisdom and foresight. She is represented carrying a lantern. The Warrior: represents strength and courage in battle. The Smith: represents creation and craftsmanship. The Stranger: The Stranger represents death and the unknown. It is rarely prayed to. Symbols: Seven-pointed star. Priest is called a Septon. Worshipped by: Everyone in Westeros south of The Neck (except Stannis Baratheon and the occupants of Dragon Stone.) (Nuns of the Faith of the Seven appear on battlefields to tend to the dead, sick and wounded.) Power demonstration: Catelyn Stark prayed to the Stranger for the death of Jon Snow when he was a child. Then she changed her mind when he contracted the pox. She preyed to the gods and promised she would love Jon Snow as her own and even have Ned change his name if his life was spared from the pox. When he did survive she ignored her promise. Did she anger the Faith of the Seven? Or even the Gods of the North (since she lived there)?

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Lord of Light: (R’hllor) Beliefs: According to prophecy, Lightbringer would be pulled from fire by the Lord’s Chosen, the Prince That Was Promised, champion of the Lord of Light. Infidels of other religions that don’t repent are burned at the stake purify their souls of all their sins. This happened to relatives of Selyse Baratheon. In S4E2 we learn from Melisandre that there is also a Lord of Darkness, so disciples believe in two gods. The world in which all the characters we have seen live in now is considered hell. Worshipped by: Essos: Quaithe; Free Cities: Thoros of Myr; Westeros: Brotherhood Without Banners (Beric) using Thoros. Dragonstone (It is worshipped by Stannis and Selyse Baratheon in the 2nd, 3rd and 4th Seasons through Melisandre, a red priestess.) Power demonstration: Yes, several have been provided. The death of Renly Baratheon by a dark force; Beric being healed and kept from death. He lit his sword with what looked like a mixture of his blood and that of Thoros.

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Drowned God: “What is dead may never die”, “But rises again, harder and stronger”. Beliefs: The religion justifies the Ironborn way of life of piracy and raiding. Followers believe the Drowned God brought flame from the sea and he created the Ironborn to reave, raid, and pillage. The religion centers around maritime skills and seafaring ability. Killing enemies in battle is considered a pious act. A youth in the Iron Islands is not considered a man until he has killed his first enemy. The religion also encourages paying the “iron price” instead of the “gold price” — that is, it is better not to pay or treat for possessions, but to take them by force from the hands of dead enemies. Worshipped by: Iron Islands Power demonstration: None has been provided yet.

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God of Death: Worshipped by: (Syrio Forel mentions his belief in the God of Death to Arya Stark during their “dancing” lessons) Essos: Braavos Westeros: Arya Stark (S3, Arya Stark reveals to Beric Dondarrion and Thoros of Myr that she has come to believe that “Death” is the one true god.) Power demonstration: None has been provided yet.

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Great Shepard: Worshipped by: Essos: Lhazareens (A statue of this god was torn down by the Dothraki in the village they were pillaging; Dany claimed the women who were being raped.) Power demonstration: Khal Drogo avoided death by being turned into a vegetative state by Maegi Mirri Maz Duur and through the sacrifice of Daenerys’ child and Drogo’s horse.

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Great Stallion: Worshipped by: Essos: Dothraki Power demonstration: None has been provided yet.

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Religion of the White Walkers: Worshipped by: The White Walkers Lands of Forever Winter Power demonstration: Converting human babies into White Walkers.

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Game Of Thrones: What Scenes did not work for you?:

***SPOILERS: Do not read unless you are up to S4E6.***

What Scenes did not work for you?

*Attack of the Men of the Knights Watch by White Walkers and Wights at the Fist of the First Men.* (S2E10)

We got to see the perspective of the Wights heading towards the Fist of the First Men. That was fine. However, Season Three we saw the bodies of the horses slaughter at the Fist, however are we lead to believe that 300 men are now Wights? Wouldn’t there be body parts for some of them?It was very unclear what happened and the severity it brought on the number of men left at Castle Black to defend the Wall.

*Battle of Blackwater*. (S2E9)
What was the net result of this epic battle? Tyrion acquired a scar. Davos got some too. Four kings were still around afterwards. It looked great, however the story didn’t budge.

*Sept encounter between Cersei and Jaime*. (S4E3)
This has been gone over by all of us in detail.
The rape pieces should just be cut out of the scene. There’s no consequences to those actions. Two characters characterization (IMO) got messed up or seems a bit confusing. Nothing was achieved by it either other than us knowing that Cersei wants Jaime to kill Tyrion which could have been accomplished without the rape piece (or whatever the show runners decide today what to call ‘THAT’.)

*Attack at the Dreadfort by Yara*. (S4E6)

Yara spends weeks traveling to rescue her brother and then abandons the rescue after spending only a few seconds with him and succinctly assessing his mental state as non recoverable as the hounds are being released on her? Apparently it takes just as long to sail from the Iron Isles all the way around Westeros to attack the Dreadfort as it does to go on land from the Twins to the Dreadfort in a stealthy manner. I am having a hard time believing this.

*Shae’s Testimony*. (S4E6)
It appears she was coerced into testifying against Tyrion (since she was allegedly put on a ship to Pentos). However, she does say Tyrion forced her to call him “Little Lion”. The only one who knew that was Shae herself, so she could have volunteered her testimony. Tyrion did tell Shae that Tywin would execute any whore he found in his bed, so I am finding it hard to believe Shae would willfully testify against Tyrion outting herself as his whore.

What things didn’t work for you?

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Game of Thrones: Threads at the TV Critic
http://www.thetvcritic.org/forums/other-tv-shows/show/180
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Game of Thrones: Similarities between Game of Thrones & LOST:

Similarities between LOST and Game of Thrones:

*Both G.O.T. and LOST expose us to more and more groups that were around before the groups we are originally started with.

*G.O.T. ‘The Sight’ (Greensight) in a way is like the flashes backward and forward with the wheel on Lost.
However, in G.O.T our characters aren’t moved through time through the use of ‘the Sight’.

*There is magic on the Island and there is magic used in all the different lands of the World of G.O.T.

Character matchups (G.O.T versus LOST):

Beric Dondarrion and John Locke: (healing powers)
Bran and Desmond: (have special capabilities)
Brienne and Ana Lucia: (great fighters)
Cersei and Eloise: (both calculating)
Cressen and Leslie Arzt: (Die from weapons they are holding)
Daario and Sayid: (assassins)
Daenerys and Kate: (more dangerous than you anticipate.)
Drogo and Sayid: (Not the same person after magic is used)
Gilly and Claire Littleton: (have newborns)
Hot Pie and Hurley: (comic relief)
The Hound and Mr. Eko: (Fighters)
Jaime and Sawyer: (unpredictable)
Jon Snow and Jack: (Main heroes)
Little Finger and Benjamin Linus: (calculating and manipulating quick based on chaos)
Melisandre’s Black Smoke Stannis and Smoke Monster: (Smoke monsters!)
Ned Stark and Jack: (sacrificed their lives for their groups)
Samwell and Charlie: (Love interest for the mothers)
Sansa and Juliet: (between two opposing groups of folks)
Tyrion and Sawyer: (One step ahead of everyone and good lines)
Tywin and Jacob: (Trying to keep things going using candidates or heirs)

There are loads of differences. What similarities have you spotted?

Robin and Roberto make some comparisons between the two shows here:
http://www.thetvcritic.org/casts/A_Pod_of_Casts_308_Second_Sons.mp3

*The feud between Damon Lindeloff and George R.R. Martin:
http://insidetv.ew.com/2011/04/05/thrones-author-lost/

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Game of Thrones: Threads at the TV Critic
http://www.thetvcritic.org/forums/other-tv-shows/show/180
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LOST: Threads at the TV Critic
http://www.thetvcritic.org/forums/other-tv-shows/show/205
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Game of Thrones: Oath of the People of the GOT’s Watch:

“Night gathers, and now my watch begins.
It shall not end until my episode concludes.
I shall take no bathroom break, hold my bladder,
father no interest in spoilers.
I shall wear no shoes and enjoy the story.
I shall be entertained and relax at my post.
I am the sore eyes in the darkness.
I am the watcher of the show.
My eyes burn against the cold pixilated screen,
the light that brings the dawn,
the car horn that wakes the sleepers,
the unentertained that comprises the realms of men.
I pledge a piece of my down time and commenting
to the watch, for this night and all the nights to
come until it is done.”

– Oath of the People of the Game of Thrones Watch.

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Game of Thrones: Threads at the TV Critic
http://www.thetvcritic.org/forums/other-tv-shows/show/180
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Considerations for Cross Medium TV Shows and Movies for Book Readers and Audience Members:

Considerations for Cross Medium TV Shows and Movies
for Book Readers and Audience Members.

(About me: I have read all the Walking Dead graphic
novels, all the books. I have read none of the Game of
Thrones books and I am a fan boy of both GOT and
TWD. I comment on both TV shows because I love to.
I have watched TV and movies and read books
voraciously for over 40 years. I am contributor to
the forums here at the TV Critic. Threads are posted at the bottom.)

1. Everyone is a book reader and everyone is a
potential TV Show or Movie audience member.
Voracity of each medium is subjective.

2. Characters, storylines, dialog and actions can all be
different between the very different mediums of books, movies and TV Shows.

3. You can do anything in a book on any scale and
you’re only limited by the imagination of the author.
This can all be controlled by one person, the author(s).
TV and Movies are controlled by a large group of
people so the ideas may come from the written page
originally of one author, however TV shows have
groups of writers, prop makers, set designers, location
scouts, actors, makeup and special affects folks, etc…

4. In television, you are limited by budget and how
many episodes you have a season. You have to cater
to the audience to keep up interest and ratings of the
show so it can remain on air long enough to tell the
entire story. A book you get it all served up to you to
go through at your leisure unless the story is spread
over series of books. When a story spans a series of
books then you can start comparing it to a TV series.

5. Books allow you to understand what a character is
thinking because you can have pages of inner dialog to
accomplish this. A TV show or movie has to use verbal
asides, flashbacks, overdubbed audio or other
characters to allow us to know what someone is thinking.

6. A book uses time differently then a TV show or
movie. Time is something the author can always
reinforce after lengthy descriptions to keep the story
moving forward in the printed word. You can always
back fill information and story in a book. TV shows and
movies are unforgiving because time is so limited to begin with.

7. The same story in different mediums should be considered without reference to other.

•   All the elements have to stand for themselves and
in the case of movies and TV shows you have the
additional considerations of acting, sets, props, editing, and budget.

•   Care and consideration should be taken of fellow
audience members when commenting about a TV Show
or movie based on book source material at a website.
The most obvious being spoilers. One thing I always
love hearing is if people can piece together
characterization based on what has happened.
I call these Character and Story Tendencies.
I talk about that here:
http://www.thetvcritic.org/forums/other-tv-shows/show/250
When people use those Tendencies to guess what will
happen that is speculation (which I go into later in this thread.)

•   One shouldn’t be critical of an audience member
who doesn’t understand something that has occurred
in a TV show episode or a movie.
They are talking about the TV episode or a scene in a
movie not about the book. If anything you know how
some of the actions or characters or storylines should
have worked because you read it already so (if
anything) you should be on the same page as the
person making the criticism (as far as knowing what is
lacking or not.)

•   Talking down or looking down upon someone who
refuses to read the book before the conclusion of a TV
series or movie is ludicrous (especially if they are trying
to comment on what they are seeing.)

8. Everyone speculates where things will go in any
format (book, movie or TV) In my opinion if you are
left guessing what will happen then the book or show is
doing its job. That means to me, you are officially
engaged in the story. Whether your guesses are right
or wrong I think doesn’t really matter. The fact that you
are guessing does matter. I personally think it’s a lot of
fun because you can connect story lines and better
understand character development in your mind.

9. A few words about Trolling.

This particular website I love because it encourages
everyone to leave comments (good or bad) about how
they felt about a particular episode of Television and
those get folded into the podcasts. This includes
disagreements or agreements on things
that have to do with that episode.

I am not here to listen to someone’s criticism or a
review of Robin’s review or criticism of everyone elses
comments of the show. That is *Trolling* and it
doesn’t contribute to the wonderful podcasts I have
heard here. It discourages people from leaving
comments because they feel that person is attacking
them rather than commenting on the show.

Like you, I am quite capable of reading Robin’s
reviews on shows and everyone elses comments and I
can reflect on those on my own. I am only interested in
what you personally felt about that episode Robin has
reviewed. Your comments about each show and how
Robin (and Roberto or others in some cases) are able
to weave them together into a collective understanding
and analysis are what continuously draws me here.

I always find out I appreciate the TV show in question
much better after hearing these particular podcasts and
reading these comments and the reviews.

I look forward to hearing and seeing your comments.

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Game of Thrones: Threads at the TV Critic:
http://www.thetvcritic.org/forums/other-tv-shows/show/180
Walking Dead Threads at the TV Critic:
http://www.thetvcritic.org/forums/other-tv-shows/show/173
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GOT: Arya’s Kill List (TV Show as of S4E10):

Dead:

Armory Lorch: Status: Dead. (By Jaqen H’Ghar)
King Joffrey: Status: Dead. (By Baelish and Lady Olenna)
Polliver: Status: Dead. (By Arya)
Rorge: Status: Dead.    (By Arya)
The Tickler: Status: Dead. (By Jaqen H’Ghar)
Tywin Lannister: Status: Dead. (By Tyrion)
The Hound: Status: ?

Alive:

Beric Dondarrion: Status: Alive.
Melisandre: Status: Alive.
The Mountain: Status: Alive. (Barely)
Queen Cersei: Status: Alive.
Ser Ilyn Payne: Status: Alive.
Ser Meryn Trant: Status: Alive.
Thoros of Myr: Status: Alive.
Walder Frey: Status: Alive.

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Game of Thrones: Threads at the TV Critic
http://www.thetvcritic.org/forums/other-tv-shows/show/180
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Game of Thrones: What if Tywin were to die now? (S4E6):

There are some spectacular things that can affect the story line we are seeing in Game of Thrones if Tywin were to die or be killed right now.

What do you think?

This thought came from Davos speaking with the Iron Bank of Braavos in S4E6.

“How old is Tywin Lannister …- 67. And when he dies, who’s in command? A half-grown boy, the product of incest? Cersei Lannister, a queen whose people despise her? Jaime Lannister, a man best known for killing the king he was sworn to protect? When Tywin’s gone, who do you back?”

Technically if Tyrion is absolved of his charges, he would be Lord over Casterly Rock.
King Tommen would require a new hand. Who would it be?
Cersei would be in charge of Westeros until Tommen comes of age.
War of the Five Kings would probably have more activity.
Roose Bolton might declare himself King of the North.

How about the other rulers?

What would happen if Dany were to die right now?
Wouldn’t House Targaryen be no more? (Except Maester Aemon)

If Mace Tyrell died than Loras would be Lord of House Tyrell.

If Stannis sacrifices Mireen and then he dies, wouldn’t
Dragonstone and the Stormlands go to Tommen?

If Robin died right now would there be no more of House Arryn?

If Balon Greyjoy dies right now wouldn’t Yara be Lady over House Greyjoy?

What do you think?

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Game of Thrones: Threads at the TV Critic
http://www.thetvcritic.org/forums/other-tv-shows/show/180
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